Fall sale ads

I usually try to leave the Fugly blog alone (and have, for awhile now, to my credit), but I felt Cathy's latest was just over the top, especially posting the individual in question's phone number and information.

I don't understand who you think you are, Cathy, that you can criticize people for selling their horses because they lack the financial ability to care for said horses? What do you want??! They keep their horses and said horses starve due to lack of financial means, you cry foul. They sell their horses because they lack the financial means to care for them, prior to said horses receiving inadequate care as a result of lack of funds - you cry foul. Hell, you even post their numbers on your blog, in case the ad is removed from CL, so as to ensure your sheep have the right phone number to chew someone a new one.

The ad, from the Fugly blog:

“MUST SELL NO FOOD FOR THE WINTER!!! Quarter Horse Buckskin Mare. 6 yrs old, has been used as a trail horse. This mare has been ridden at the big Carolyn ride a few years ago. Was registered but I never got the papers She is truly worth taking a look at her! $100.00

Also, a 2 yr old Warm Blood. Not gelded. Has had a saddle as a yearling and we have lead children around on him. Asking $400.00 will consider all offers.

I am posting this for the neighbor next door so please refer to his phone # for any questions or make an appointment to come and see them. Emails will not be answered. Wausau Area. Phone Josh at ###-###-####″

She even has the audacity to post the following:

A rescuer friend of mine got a call yesterday from some folks who wanted her to take a mare off their hands because she was skinny because of the four month old foal at her side. And they couldn’t afford the vet because they had just taken in two other mares, one of them pregnant!

Yes, cuz heaven forbid someone take a skinny mare and foal to a rescue!! What's the history of said mare, did they rescue her originally? Did something change financially for the individuals so that they could no longer care for said mare? Are these types of situations not what rescues are for?? Now, I do not quite understand that last line - does Cathy mean the individuals could not afford the vet because they had just taken two other mares (one of them pregnant) into the vet for care or (more likely) because they had just taken in two other mares into their care, one of which being pregnant? So, did they take in or purchase these other mares (cheap) ie. rescue them, or did they buy them for some ridiculous price? Because if that (preceding reason) be the case, how could we blame someone for taking on three mares and sending one of them to a rescue because they could not afford vet care for three mares, one nursing and one pregnant? I mean, they could have turned all three mares into the rescue, yet are instead choosing to care for two of them out of their own pocket??!! Am I missing something?

I did look up hay in Wisconsin. Not sure yet why I don't live there, as hay is fairly cheap, lol. Some of the bales are $1.50 each first cut. Average price though is $2.50 (take note where I am hay is at minimum double that) it seems. I looked up small squares only because not everyone has the equipment necessary to feed round bales. So let's assume you have to start feeding now (Oct) through until the end of April. At minimum. That's 7 months of feed, which is 210 days of feeding. Minimum. Say you pay the average of $2.50 per bale and let's just say each bale weighs in at 50lbs. Horses should eat approx. 1-2 percent of their body weight which equates to roughly 10-20lbs per day per horse. So let's say one bale per day to feed both horses in the ad above (I always over-budget because chances are you will have to throw out hay, hay will be more expensive than you anticipate, horses will waste hay, etc). That means about $525 to purchase what is hopefully good horse hay (timothy or grass mix with alfalfa), assuming the bales are 50lbs apiece and assuming you only started feeding yesterday and will only feed until the end of next April. Though $525 is not much itself it still is a substantial amount to someone selling their horses for only $100 and $400. Then you are also looking at farrier ($25-$40 per trim per horse in my area), deworming ($15-$30 per horse at least twice between now and the start of spring), and any vet care between now and next spring (like gelding that colt, any injuries, etc). That is also assuming you are able to keep the horses on your property (ie. no board) and thus feed them every day too (ie. no labour costs), and that you are equipped for winter (ie. shelters and waters that do not freeze, or at least some way to get water to your horses).

That is a lot of assumptions.

Cathy assumes they cannot come up with $100 a month however that is assuming there are no other expenses on top of feeding (which simply is not true) and that is assuming also that they must only come up with $100 per month....and as anyone who has ever had to purchase hay knows, that is often not how it works - you often need to pay for the hay upfront. You often purchase all your winter hay at the commencement of fall, before all the hay is sold elsewhere. Unless it somehow works differently in Wisconsin?

Then Cathy questions why the man would even have horses in the first place, if he cannot afford $100/month to feed them. Well, news flash, that's why he is selling them! D'oh! His selling them now however has no bearing whatsoever on whether or not he could afford them originally! Has it ever occurred to her that perhaps this man's situation has changed since he originally purchased these horses?

And maybe it cost less to geld a horse in Wisconsin, but out here it is $150 at my clinic if you do it during a specific week in March and in September, when the clinic fee is waived, if you bring your youngster in. Nevermind if you have to call the vet in to your farm, if there are any complications, or you do not take advantage of that one week in either spring or fall. Plus, to be honest, if I could no longer afford my horses, I certainly would not be gelding my colt - sorry, but the new owners can invest in that, since they are the ones keeping said horse long-term.

As far as being unable to feed a horse over the winter, a) circumstances change and b) how long have these horses been up for sale prior? Who knows, maybe these horses have been for sale for the past several months yet have not sold, hence the price drop (etc)? Maybe it has something to do with the reason the neighbour is posting this ad as opposed to the actual owner? But just because he cannot afford these horses come fall is not sufficient reason, in my eyes, he should not have gotten them in the first place - as I said, we know nothing of this individual's situation. Heck, my situation has changed since spring and I now have 6 horses (which cost me an easy $950/month in board alone, and that is with one of them on lease, so no expenses for him) - 1 of which is for sale and the other (my dream horse) I am contemplating having to sell for financial reasons. It will be tight financially keeping them all winter however I do not regret any of the decisions I made at the time I purchased any of the last four horses (the first two are homebred 16 and 11 years ago); I made intelligent and sound decisions based on my situation at the time. I can swing it provided I sell the one come spring however I am just lucky my situation has not changed so much that I can no longer afford to keep any of them. Lucky. Lucky that I can hold onto my sale mare till spring when it is a better time to sell - both for me and for her. Others are not so much, especially given this economy. Besides, who is Cathy to judge whether this man can sell his mare and colt in the fall or not, as opposed to waiting until spring?

Should this man be leaving a 2yo colt with a 6yo open mare? Well, probably not. However I still fail to see the reason for such criticism, particularly given we have no idea of the owner's situation (or even the colt's - hello possible undescended testicle?).

Just saying. It's easy to judge from the comfort of our chairs, however how can we possibly accurately judge someone's personal situation - and should we, even? For all we know, this individual is doing the best possible in the situation given. Let's not sic our dogs on him.

I promise a more educational blog in your near future, as opposed to a vent ;)

How to make money training horses

Yes, possible as well...when done in a smart, business-sense fashion. I'll describe a couple of criteria/scenarios where it can work, and where it will not work. While I do not believe that someone can earn a sufficient income training to fully substitute say a high 5-figure or low 6-figure career, I think someone can easily earn a supplemental income training horses, if done in a specific, market-savvy way. Not only is this obviously beneficial to you, but you are usually also providing a second chance to a horse that deserves it but might not otherwise get it - the horse that just needs a little help up to find a good home. In my experiences indicate that most people do not understand how to train, so if you have the talent and expertise, use it, because there is a niche for you.

Own your own facility
Or train at one that allows you discounts (etc) for training horses there (or better yet, who pays you to be there and allows you to bring in your own horses for a reduced fee). You'll probably need arenas (or at least open space, preferably fenced), round pen, barns, paddocks/pastures, and good footing!

Client horses do not make you money
Usually, and especially if you have to board them out! You'll make very little and though you'll think you can count on say $2,000 a month profit for four horses...something always comes up. You'll spend more in fuel, you'll have to get some additional or new pieces of equipment, etc, and by the time you're finished, you really were not paid much, if anything, for your time. If you're a BNT who can charge a thousand or more for showing and training at your own facilities, well maybe you are making some money then. Usually though all that happens is you end up working your fingers to the bone without much to show for it. On the other hand, client horses are an excellent way to get your name out there (WOM is invaluable) and to gain further experience. Just be prepared to always be professional and to have a thick skin.

Have an eagle eye
For the deals out there. The gems for sale people do not realise they have, the horses going for cheap or auction who only need a little special touch to turn their luck around, the horses who are going for cheap because their owners have no interest/opportunity to turn them around for a higher dollar (ie. racehorses off the track often go for meat price but could be flipped for anywhere from $1,000-$7,000, even in this market), for the 'problem horses', etc. Keep one eye on the market and watch for the exceptional deals out there to buy, (re-)train, and sell later. If you've got the property, buy low in the fall/winter and sell high in the spring/summer. Put some show experience on your project and make it versatile (ie. trail rides, rides both english and western), in addition to furthering it in its particular discipline. We purchased a Thoroughbred off the track for meat price whom we could definitely have sold high immediately afterwards - his original owners and breeders just didn't want to put the time into him. He has fantastic dressage movement, also has hunter potential, and is, as a coming-six-year-old now, packing around beginnger/intermediate riders (including an 11yo girl). He packs well in the mountains and could be shown easily. I know of one individual who would regularly pick up lovely registered Quarter Horses and turn around and sell them, at times without touching them, for much more than she had paid - sometimes double or triple what she had paid, without even investing any money into them at times. I also know of several barns that buy horses off the track cheap and re-sell them as hunter/jumpers for much more than they put into them. I have been offered horses I knew I could easily have flipped had I had the time and money at the time. One was a 5yo imported Dutch Warmblood gelding. The owner was having difficulties with him and offered him to me for a mere $5,000. This was back when the market was good, too. He was well over 16hh and was an absolutely gorgeous dark bay with beautiful movement and plenty of athleticism. He was not a true problem horse, he was simply too much horse for his middle-aged, fearful owner - she needed and wanted something quieter. She had the money to spend and did not mind practically giving away a horse for a fraction of his true worth (once he was tweaked further). Another example is our Paint horse, Cody. I originally took him with the intent to flip; he was given to me when his owner ultimately decided he was too much for her. He had been abused in the past and was extremely fearful and distrustful of humans. In the end though, he ended up too good to sell so he is with us to stay, but a solid palomino Paint with good looks, a willing attitude, and an incredible saddle horse - he is priceless (I have already had offers on him, actually). We recently purchased a Hano-bred jumper filly (coming 3 this summer) and were able to get a good deal on her - her owner passed on the good deal they originally got on her. I have the feeling she will be worth more come this summer as she fills out, and I know with absolute certainty (by researching what is comparable out there) that she will be worth double what we paid once I start her under-saddle. Of course we do not plan on selling her, however she would have been a good investment to flip as well. The deals are out there, you just have to know what to look for and to have the eye for a good horse.

Choose wisely
If you choose project horses to train, you need a good eye, experience, and/or a mentor to back you up. Choose horses you would want yourself. Choose good minds and temperaments, athleticism, good conformation, and a horse suitable to its chosen discipline (yes, even according to the latest fads such as colour and movement/body type). The friend I spoke of who flipped Quarter Horses always chose horses she was drawn to - beautiful, solid buckskins, palominos, etc. I swear those horses always sold within minutes. They were never on the market long. Choose what others are drawn to and what you would love to have standing in your own barn.

Be prepared
If you work with project horses, fair warning: do be prepared to have to keep the horse longer than you anticipate. Sometimes shit happens and the horse does not sell for whatever reason. Budget to figure out where you stand, what you can spend, and what is your lowest selling price. Keep a close watch on your finances and the market. Also, make sure you have the experience to flip horses for a profit and always be prepared to take the horse's best interests into account. Apprentice if you can, observe/work with/learn from other trainers in your area first, then take on some client horses, preferably with help first. Take on the young unstarted horses first, then move on to problem horses if you have got the expertise and the touch.

Compete
Most people are looking for show horses they can eventually compete on, so the more competition you've got under your belt, the more potential buyers will trust you, and the more competitions your sale horse has got under its girth, the more valuable he becomes. Even old broodmares. Horse & Rider featured an article last year on a broodmare whose owners tried to sell a few years back. The mare did not sell immediately so they decided to try her out under-saddle. She turned out to be exceptional under-saddle, so they started showing her. She won multiple national championships and the mare worth only a few thousand to start (and not selling) was now worth something in the 5 digits. It pays to compete and by competing you not only get your name out there, but you also get your sale prospect's name out there.

Give your horses the edge
Teach them everything you possibly can, from standing under tarps to trail riding in the mountains, a reining/dressage foundation, jumping (if applicable), clipping, bathing, shoeing, showing, etc. Make them amateur and youth-friendly. Most people buying horses want a versatile horse they can compete on but also enjoy out on the trails, who is not spooky, and who has a lot of experience under its belt. They want more bang for their buck. Make your horse stand out with additional experiences and training.

Marketing
Learn how to efficiently and effectively market and sell your horse. Learn what sells and what does not.


In short, there is money in training horses - if you do it the smart way. Most of the time this is not by taking on client horses (though doing so is still important), but rather by taking on projects with the intent to sell. The key is to have an eye for good projects, horses who have a low purchase price but who will have a high marketability later - horses who allow for the least amount of risk possible. Start out small as you learn the ropes!!